The “hybrid vigor” myth (pertaining to dog breeds) - who started it and why do so many people fall for it?
May 6th, 2009 | by admin |
abbyful asked:
A well-bred dog that came from a sire & dam with all proper genetic health clearances, etc., should logically have *fewer* health problems than a mutt (since all mutts are “poorly-bred”, nothing against mutts, they’re great, but they don’t come from reputable breeders with all the checks in place).
A well-bred dog that came from a sire & dam with all proper genetic health clearances, etc., should logically have *fewer* health problems than a mutt (since all mutts are “poorly-bred”, nothing against mutts, they’re great, but they don’t come from reputable breeders with all the checks in place).
Shouldn’t we be discussing “well-bred” versus “poorly-bred”, rather than “purebred” versus “mutt”?
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16 Responses to “The “hybrid vigor” myth (pertaining to dog breeds) - who started it and why do so many people fall for it?”
By mizz_devin on May 9, 2009 | Reply
Actually, “mutts” can be just as healthy as “purebred” since any genetic defaults that some dogs are known to have are cut in half.
By pro on May 12, 2009 | Reply
well in some cases it is true compare, for instance Pet City bred dogs to a good reputable breeder there is a definite difference in health (most of the time) i have no problem with mutts i have one but there can be problems.
By Nekkid Dog © on May 13, 2009 | Reply
I think the first answer is confused… not all purebred dogs are “well-bred” either.
Any dog that comes from un-tested or un-known parents is “poorly bred”.. be it pure or mixed breed. At least 90% of purebreds are not well-bred dogs.
I dont know where this “hybrid” vigor idea started.. but you can guarantee it was some money hungry greeder. Even “real” hybrid animals are not always healthier than their parents. Most hybrid animals are sterile, for example.
Gobukey how do you know that you are eliminating bad genes if the dogs are not being health tested? Without proper health tests genes are still indeed passed on to future generations.
Most purebreds are poorly breed.. and yes there is alot of inbreeding, as well as not testing dogs for health problems.. all from back yard breeders who are churning out dogs for profit.
As these “designer” mixes become popular tho we are seeing more unhealthy mixes.. people are inbreeding them as well for profit.
A well-bred purebred from a breeder who does genetic health tests has a better chance at living a healthy life than any mixed breed from unknown parents.
By Rayven Wolf on May 16, 2009 | Reply
Yes we should.
Miss Dev - if you breed a sickly dog to a somewhat healthy dog of another species you are still at risks for problems
A properly bred purebred has parents who have been screened against the big problems as have their grandparents and so forth.
Most problems are either genetic or general. The number of mutts around today have both going for them as no health testing is done on them.
The same goes for breeders of purebreeds as well.
Nothing wrong with mutts and nothing wrong with purebreds As long as you aren’t breeding mutts and you are breeding purebreds PROPERLY.
Nekkid is right on the sterile part. As for Hybrids to be truly healthy they would have to breed successfully for MANY generations without any throw backs to the original separate breeds that created the line
By Purple is so awesome! on May 17, 2009 | Reply
I agree. Interesting…I never thought of that. I disagree about all mutts coming from a byb thuohg. Many are stray dogs that get impreganated by other stray breeds of dog. This is how we end up with so much stray puppies at the shelters. The bybs I agree are contributing to this though.
By Golden patrol[e.c.c] on May 17, 2009 | Reply
at last someone brings up the subject!! i agree to anyone breeding to do it responsibly and test thier dogs for breed specific health issues. too many dogs are dying at such young ages. some as early as 2-4 years. thats not right at all. and people with there “teacup” bullsh!ts are really starting to piss me off. what kind of people can they be? i know i couldn’t live with the fact that i just sold someone a sickly runt that has a made up “breed” for huindres of dollars.
By gobuckeyes_16 on May 19, 2009 | Reply
The reason that has started is that a vast majority of “pure-bred” dogs have an inordinate amount of inbreeding in their genetic history. Inbreeding=degradation of genes. This is why many many breeds have health problems associated with them due to homozygous pairing of faulty genes because of inbreeding. When you cross breeds you have a very good chance of whiping out those genetic anomalies by replacing the bad genes with good ones. Many times mutts actually ARE healthier than pure breds. Simply because they *can’t* inherit those genetic defaults that go with the pure bred specimen.
By Sarah W on May 21, 2009 | Reply
I might get thumbs down-ed for saying this, but I honestly think that the “hybrid vigor” myth is a way for designer dog owners to justify their expensive purchases. “Ok, so maybe my dog doesn’t have papers, but at least it’s healthier than your purebred!” The truth is that, yes, some genetic defects will be decreased by breeding two dogs of different breeds, however there are some diseases that are dominant genes and you’ll actually multiply the issues of both breeds! Also, as more designer breeds become more popular, they will likely develop their own genetic defects, brought in by poorly-bred purebred stock.
And you’re certainly right that purebreds are often poorly bred. And even a well-bred dog an have it’s share of problems. For example, my German Shepherd, Jack, was dropped off at a shelter by his original owner when he was 2 years old, so I don’t know his history at all. He could be poorly bred, well-bred, or even a puppy mill dog. However, he is a *beautiful* dog and we get stopped on the street quite often by GSD breeders and breed fanciers, wanting to check his teeth and hips, and asking if he’d been neutered (he has). We’ve been told by several people that he has the best hips that they’ve ever seen in a GSD. It seems as if someone was doing their homework when they created him. However, he was also diagnosed with a hereditary pancreatic disorder that he will have for his entire life. Ooops. Suddenly our well-bred dog has become poorly-bred.
Very interesting question, though!
By animal_artwork on May 24, 2009 | Reply
LOL, yes… great point. Too few people are going to understand what you’re saying though.
By bluebonnetgranny on May 27, 2009 | Reply
Very good! ! ! I agree but try telling that to a BYBer. Don’t think they will even understand.
By Tracy on May 27, 2009 | Reply
Here you go…..
Let me know if you want anymore.
Yes bybs shouldn’t be breeding, but show breeders while searching and trying to create that perfect look are doing as much damage to health if not more by linebreeding. We shouldn’t shut our eyes to it.
By ♥Golden gal♥ on May 29, 2009 | Reply
Hybrid vigor has been bastardized by the designer dog industry & BYB!
They have incorporated a term ment to be used only in plants and use it to their advantage. It is the new “buzz” word!
Your thinking is correct as far as quality well bred dogs go but people still can’t get a handle on that term. Well informed and knowledge breeders do everything in their power to insure they breed healthy dogs. This however doesn’t not guarntee that all does go well. Even the most knowledgeable breeders will run into a unforseen problem. Such as cleft pallet, hair lip, or other deformaties that cant be explained.
Now when and if this happens they go looking for the answers as to why?????
Not so with people who breed mixed breed dog.
Now when speaking of mixed breed dogs then it gets very tricky. When 2 dogs of unknown back ground (mixed breeds) are mated then there is no way possible to test for any predisposed genetic problems that can arise. It is a gamble. A genetic roll of the dice. You may be fine and have a very health litter but more times than not you end up with poorly bred genetically inferrior dogs. Nothing can be tested for. Even if you breed 2 dogs know to have patella issues the chances are very high that the pups will also. You get a very cute puppy but with a real time bomb waiting to happen with the joints.
Each breed of dog comes with it own set of health issues. A good and responsible breeder will do his/her best to weed out any dog in their program and not allow dogs found with these issues not to breed.
People who are in the designer dog business do not care for the most part. Their goals is not to better any breed but to make money as fast as they can. Health is sometimes looked at but rarely! And if it is it is usually towards the females to ensure it breeding quality so it can be bred repeadily.
Cash is the only concern for these people.
I guess we can discuss this till the cows come home but unless people realize that all dogs come with certian health problems and that good and responsible breeders look to avoid these problems where as in the mixed breeds the breeder doesnt and cant test. then it like spiting in the wind and waiting to see which way the wind blows!
JMO
ADD: sorry for the length! Just had this discussion with some breed club member of mine!
By Liligirl on May 30, 2009 | Reply
Good proposition.
Selective breeding, among or between any breeds is the real issue.
Two “well-bred” dogs with similar breed related genetic proclivities (not necessarily present in the subject animal) might spiral the recurrence of a defect in the new line. For example, a dane and dalmatian, similar in characteristic traits and in temperament. Also similar in genetic frailties and lifespan. Since the genetic pool is already a soup of endless possibilities one might produce a line with the defects of both breeds’ lineage.
Breeding is a genetic crapshoot that has been refined as acutely as our current technology allows.
If the future brings absolutes into the equation of breeding then I would love to see the results. I can’t imagine a more temperate and beautiful animal than a cross of bedlingtons and bichons (which would - theoretically - produce a sturdy long-lived hypoallergenic creature with fierce athletic ability, keen hearing and an almost empathic perception). Until such time as the genetic vulnerabilities are bred out or addressed I wouldn’t gamble on the lives of the puppies that would be produced at this time.
By Bozema DSC on Jun 2, 2009 | Reply
I’ll keep mine short and simple. I see many many mixed breed dogs come through our shelter with genetic problems. A certain coonhound mix with horrible hip dysplasia and joint problems comes to mind and there have been many others. If mixed breeds are so much healthier, why have I seen all these health problems in the shelter? It’s because they inherit whatever genetic defects their parents had.
Goldengal has it exactly right.
By Cadsuane on Jun 4, 2009 | Reply
Its not totaly a myth, however for poor lines its BS because no amount of hybrid vigour is going to help
in fact hybrid vigour used with non complentary breeds can lower the vigour of the best breed
hybrid vigour is more then just mixing to random breeds, but hybrid vigour do exsist
and so a well breed mutt can be more healthy then its parents breeds
however as said a lot lot more go into it then just random luck if you are going to use it constructive
i have a feel ignoratn BYB and mills just use it cause it sounds fancy and it give them a selling point…
HV is something actualy acivly needed in say farming, because Holstein is very inbreed as a cattle breed and because of that while great producer of milk and meat, they have problems with the fitness traits. HV with a complementary breed can fix this, and so its usual to use 2 rotational, sometimes 3 rotational crossbreeding schemes.
However they still elect cows the same way they would for pure holstein, when they are looking for replacements, and all the bulls of the different breeds used as fathers are premium bulls tested for their traits and production qualities.
So you are not talking taking your neighbours jersey bull and leting it loose in your herd of holstein on random. A lot of work, planing etc go into it, and behind the option for them doing so sits an army of scientists who been calculating math, statisitcs and used variable analytical data programs to estimate the best crosses.
For using this type of crossing with benefit of HV, they resort to BLUP calculatioons etc. So yeah HV in itself is not a myth, but the way its being used unshamlesly on all mutts who are randomly breed of poor lines, is not a very acurate description of its meaning.
By chenneoue on Jun 7, 2009 | Reply
There could be many answers to this question. And I don’t have an exact answer, but some guesses.
It could have been started when purebreds where hard to come by and mutts filled the streets. Mutts where readily available to do the work like any other dog. And “maybe” to justify their cause, they claimed that the mutt was as good as any if not better then their expensive counter parts. Wild guess.
It also, I would imagine, started as poor breeding practices became more predominate. Such as BYB. People started to shell out money for what they thought was quality and was not. Making people to believe that mutts where better off because of a poor example of a pure bred.
I have no idea when they myth (or what you want to call it) started. But I don’t see it going away anytime soon…
Also, I think I missed part of your point. It probably also got confused with other proper breeding practices of bring in “new” blood, which others justify why they make these “designer dogs”… because they are not from one small stock and have a wider genetic pool to draw from, they must be better!!! Anyways, I don’t have really any good answer, just opinions/guesses.